April 2021
After being on Sky for the past 18 months, I’m now back with Virgin on the “Fibre 100”.
Got the new hub (3) over a week ago and was disappointed to find that the config choices haven’t improved from about 2 years ago, when I first had a play with it but for most users that won’t be a problem! There are no options to email Logs to “Admin” but I accept most users won’t be interested in looking at logs.
Operationally, the hub is basically “fit and forget“, once it’s set up. For those people who have their own additional “kit”, it might need the (default) IP address changing from 192.168.0.1 to 192.168.*.* (You can change the 3rd and fourth octet to your liking, in the DHCP settings).
The main change seems to be the addition of 2 ports to connect your landline phone(s), this means that Virgin are now “visibly” using the router to provide VOIP (Voice Over IP) a.k.a Voice over Broadband (VOB) so all your “land line” phone calls (incoming and outgoing) are now “visibly” going through your router. So if your router gets poorly or you have a power cut, you can’t make or receive phone calls but we all use mobile phones these days don’t we 🙂 It should mean that you don’t need to pay for a “landline”!
My landline phone(s) are cordless and connect to a “base station” and the base station is only an arms length away from the router so this wasn’t a problem. We just unplugged the phone from the BT (Open Reach) socket and connected it to the router, all fine and dandy and works a treat.
I digress but bear with me 🙂
Historically the cable companies (now Virgin) have been using VOIP for years e.g. Broadband, TV and Phone have all used the same cable but the “landline” had to be re routed to the cable system. In practice all that happened was the “BT landline” was disconnected and the “cable engineer” either installed a separate “Master socket” or just disconnected the the BT cables, in both cases a new cable was installed from the “Master socket” back to the cable system. This was usually done externally, which gave the appearance that you had a “separate” land line that you had to pay for!
The new “All in One” router now requires your (landline) phone to connect directly to the router, instead of the BT socket so your phone might not be in the “Hall” any more unless additional cabling is done! Normally, the router will / should be close to where you have your main PC, if using Ethernet.
It might be worth pointing out that the router (the Internet gateway) with built-in Wireless Access Point (WAP) to provide WiFi connections should Ideally be “centrally” located to give WiFi coverage to the “whole house”. Quite often this is not possible and you may need to use “repeaters” or “Boosters” to get complete coverage, maybe in conjunction with “Homeplug” devices. Sometimes there has to be a “Play off”, the best position for the WAP is not always the best position to connect the main PC using Ethernet.
Historically, the master (land line) phone socket was usually in the Hall or some other room where the main phone was going to be used. If you wanted to connect to the Internet (using a Modem) you had to make sure that you had “phone socket” near the PC, it didn’t need to be the master socket but when using the modem, you couldn’t make or receive calls.
Along came “Broadband Internet” which needed a router in close proximity to the main PC. In the case of ADSL, it usually meant having to have an “extension” installed to the room where the main PC was going to be used or the “master socket” was installed in close proximity to the main PC.
In the case of “Cable”, the “coaxial” cable was usually routed to the room where the main PC was used and the router was then installed in close proximity to the main PC. Cabling for the land line was usually done externally.
Along came routers with built-in WAP and this was a game changer because the WAP wasn’t always in the optimal place for “Whole house coverage”. There were often “Blind spots” where WiFi connections were poor. There were / are several solutions to resolve this.
Now that the router is a combined Router, WAP and VOIP connection, it adds another level of where to best place the “all in one” router.
Do you want the router in the same room as the (main) PC?
Do you want the router to be centrally placed for best WiFi performance ?
Do you want the router to be located in the room where your main land line phone is used ?
In many cases the use of “Homeplug” devices will resolve all / most problems with the “all in one” router location. In many cases, it might just need the landline cabling re routing to enable it to connect to the router. The solutions will depend on your priorities but there will be a solution to suit.
The “all in one” router is basically awesome but you might need to re-think about the siting of the (new) router. If you don’t have cordless (land line) phones, it’s likely that you will need some extra cabling work.
Note “Homeplug” is a generic term (in this case). It is a “system” that uses magic to transport your “data signals” over the mains wiring. It’s not really magic but awesome doesn’t do it justice. It is often a better solution than WiFi but WiFi is so convenient.
Have a look at pcjudo.co.uk (my sister site) for more info on networking.
Back the present (not the future) where I digressed:-)
Another notable difference was the router has no obvious “Firewall” config. It does have some settings under the “Security” tab for port forwarding and DMZ but little else. There is no access to “rules”, default or otherwise so you don’t know what it’s blocking or allowing through. For most people this will not be a problem, “wots a firewall Barry” 🙂
The “Intelligent WiFi” system still seems to dislike devices that can only connect to the 2.4Ghz band, the same as it did when I last played with a Hub 3 (2 years ago). On the other hand it still seems to love devices that can connect using the 5Ghz band. Using my iPad Air (iPadOS14.4.1) or an Android device with V10, I can use the Ookla “SpeedTest” App and get a download speed of around 113 Mbps and an upload speed of about 10Mbps – impressive.
My Android and Windows devices (connecting to the 2.4Ghz band) only manage between 2.37Mbps and about 25Mbps for Internet connections. Fortunately my ‘Droid devices have 4G and I don’t need to use WiFi, unless I want to connect to my (internal) SAMBA server and my Windows devices mainly use Ethernet. SpeedTest gives results around 50 / 60 Mbps using 4G. It’s disappointing to find that Virgin have done nothing to address this, despite being aware of the issue for over 2 years but everyone has new kit that uses 5Ghz don’t they !
The “Intelligent WiFi” isn’t intelligent, it just favours the 5Ghz band. If your devices can only use the 2.4Ghz band, you will be disappointed.
NOTE. Most of my Android devices can only use the 2.4Ghz connection but I have an Android tablet (on V 10) and an iPad that use the 5Ghz connection and in both cases the results are impressive and similar using the Ookla Speedtest App. 2 of my grandsons have Android phones running V 10 and they were impressed at the “speedtest” results of about 112Mbps – using the 5Ghz connection.
It would seem that the 2.4Ghz connection is no longer fully supported by Virgin. It worked fine with Virgin Hub 2 and works fine with Sky Q Hubs.
Overall, the Hub 3 version that I have will be fine and dandy for most people, It’s “plug n play”. If you’re using Ethernet, it won’t be a problem, if you’re using a device that can connect to to WiFi on the 5Ghz option, it won’t be a problem but you might find that your devices that only connect to the 2.4Ghz option won’t give you the expected connection speeds that you might expect 🙁
The 5Ghz connection will normally be a “faster” connection but the range is limited. It tends to work best when within “line of sight” and within 3 to 5 Metres of the WAP. The 2.4Ghz connection has a “longer” range and generally copes better with obstructions like walls, it will never achieve the “connection speed” of the 5Ghz option but it should still have a “decent” connection speed. Turning off the “Smart WiFi” makes no noticeable difference.
I note that devices are not standard so some (older) devices might not support the 5Ghz connection which will affect WiFi performance.
For those people that have “a bit more IT Kit”, the Hub 3 could be a major disappointment. There is basically nothing that you can configure to suit your “favoured set up”. The internal / private network IP address is 192.168.0.1 and only the 3rd and fourth Octets can be amended. There is no option to use the 172.16.0.0 or 10.0.0.0. private addresses. This is unbelievable. However it isn’t a huge problem, you just need to go to the DHCP settings and amend the 3rd Octet to something like 150 or anything between 2 and 254 (the “Guest WiFi network seems to use 192.168.1.0 ) . Whatever you set the 3rd octet to, the web interface will default to 192.168.xxxx.1. If you have your own router, you just need to use the DMZ option on the Virgin router and give your router a 192.168.xxx.xxx Static IP. Strangely the Virgin router won’t let you use an IP address outside of the DHCP scope for the DMZ so you might need to play with the DHCP settings “Starting Local Address” and “Number of CPEs”. It would be normal practice to NOT use an IP address within the DHCP scope but hey ho!
There is no option to use DNS servers of choice, this is probably so that Virgin can monitor the (web) sites that you visit, maybe they are selling this info to earn a few quid. I can’t think of any other rational reason! If you’re using your own (additional) router, you can set the DNS servers to your choice and can use this as a DHCP server for your “Home LAN” and this should bypass the Virgin DNS servers, should you want to!
Most people will never have to access the (web base) UI but for those that do, they will find it to be a very slow experience! I reckon “telnet” would be quicker 🙂
The latest Hub 3 (based on the router I’ve been supplied with) will be fine for most people unless you are using devices on WiFi that can only use the 2.4Ghz band. If you have devices that are not able to use the 5Ghz band, you might be disappointed. with the (Internet) connection speeds.
In conclusion. the “latest” hub 3 will be fine for most people who use Ethernet to connect to the hub and for those that connect to the hub using WiFi on the 5 Ghz option. For the people that have some knowledge of IT and those who use devices to connect using WiFi on 2.4Ghz, it might be better to use the Hub 3 as a “Modem” and purchase your own (WiFi) router. The Hub 3 will then just be a means of accessing the Internet, using Virgin as the ISP.
The (latest) Hub 3 does not offer any confidence that it is a “secure Internet gateway“. It would seem that it only offers a very basic “firewall” in the form of “NAT” and this suggests that the router can only be considered as “border protection” that gives minimal protection. IMO, it is merely an “Internet Gateway” that has a built-in WAP and VOIP function. It offers little or no options to configure to suit. It doesn’t even give the option to use (the more secure) AES Encryption for WiFi so if you want to be confident that your Internet connection and WiFi connections are secure, just use the Hub3 as a modem and buy your own router with built-in WAP or router and stand-alone WAPs, to give maximum WiFi coverage.
The latest Hub 3 with built-in VOIP and WAP is a device that will be suitable for a lot of people that are not concerned with or have any knowledge of security but favour ease of use. The decision makers at Virgin seem to fit into this category 🙂
With regard to connecting the “land line phone” to the router, this could be a conundrum but the cable engineer will probably sort this out by running extra cabling to enable your “land line phones” to connect to the router.
With regard to “siting” the router to give maximum “Whole House” WiFi coverage (using 5Ghz), it’s likely that you will need to something like “Homeplug” and boosters and / or repeaters.
With regard to “siting” the router to be in close proximity to your main PC, connected using Ethernet, it might have to be a compromise with regard to phone connection and “Whole house” WiFi coverage.
In closing. The hub 3 (with built-in) WAP and VOIP is basically a good bit of kit that should be reliable. It would appear that the “decision makers” at Virgin are only interested in “Speed” and “Ease of use” and have ticked both boxes for most users. It would be nice if the “Decision makers” had some technical knowledge and gave some thought about the “security” of WiFi and indeed the “security” of the router.
The Hub 3 (with VOIP & WAP) is an “Internet Gateway” and Virgin are / should be “Duty bound” to make sure this device provides a “Secure Gateway” to the “Internet”. It may well be doing so but there isn’t anything to confirm this.